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Topic with many replies

Should pilot unions step in to fight pay2fly schemes?

Author Message
Written on: 23. 07. 2012 [13:35]
Board Cadet Pilot
registered since: 10.09.2011
Posts: 14
Hi Stefan
I would first of all like to emphasize that I have mixed feelings about p2f schemes.
I agree with most of what you wrote and I have noticed that your opinion does not differ much from mine. A very interesting statement you made is the following:
"The problem of p2f is also that it is has become a career path for the wealthy and rich. And that, of course, is not a desirable situation. It should remain a profession for the skilled of all income levels".
I don’t agree with the first part of your statement. The fact is, if you want to become a pilot these days you need between SFr. 130’000.—to 150’000.- for an integrated course with MCC and type rating on a turbo prop or jet and then you need a job which without experience you won’t find. The only option is to pay another SFr. 25’000 or so for 500 hour line training and thereafter a two year contract with payment such as offered by the Indoneasian carrier on the 737-900NG ER and others. At the end you have accumulated about 1500 hours.
Now I ask myself; what is the difference between SFr. 150’000.—and the additional Sfr. 25’000.--? Fact is, if you want to become a pilot you need lots of money. Flying career has become, - it does not matter which way you turn the coin - a thing that only wealthy and the rich can afford. To explicitly say that only p2f pilots are rich and wealthy is way out of line and derogatory.
The facts are clear. If you have already spent say SFr. 150’000.--, now sitting around looking for a job by sending hundreds of applications (most of the time not even receiving an answer back) and keeping current as well as renewing your licenses twice or three times in the process, will at the end cost more than paying the SFr.25’000.— or so and logging 1500 hours on a 737 or A320.
If I look at all of these blogs, especially in PPRuNe where pilots blaspheme and slander about p2f and how it is going to ruin and decay the pay scale etc, etc. This is simply not true. Have a look at the recent issue with Austrian or the fight between Swiss/Swiss Regional (ex Crossair) which has gone on for decades. It is either the company that is putting on the screw or the Union that is doing everything to keep the Regional pay scale lower and make certain that they don’t receive aircraft over 100 seats. These are only two examples, I can give you hundrets more.
The reality in today’s world for a young person wanting to become a pilot is completely different from what it was years ago and many older pilots have not realized this. P2f is not necessarily the best solution, but the aviation industry (companies and to a certain extent the unions) themselves have to take a good portion of the blame.
Written on: 23. 07. 2012 [19:32]
Board Cadet Pilot
registered since: 09.12.2011
Posts: 9
Hi all,

Some of you take it personal, but in my opinion, management is responsible for that situation, of course. The problem is, we should have a law preventing anyone from buying a type rating in a TRTO except if they come on behalf of an airline company... The situation would then get better, or so I think.

In the USA, where that issue doesn't exist, first officers now getting on board of a commercial passenger operation must have at least 700 hours. Most of the F/O starting their career have already got at least 1000 hours, but none of them ever paid for commercial hours.
This is just an example, because the job market is very different there, with many possibilities to fly an airplane while getting paid for it...



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